I know that many people have strong feelings about anything to do with Taylor Lorenz, which is in part the unfortunate result of culture war behavior common on Twitter. We do not intend to moderate this comments section, even though we expect it to be… lively. Say what you will, but know that invective, ad hominen, and personal attacks are unlikely to achieve your ends. At best, this space supports thoughtful critique and respectful argument—so, can we aim for that? By shouting, you might achieve temporary personal release, but you are unlikely to convince anyone that you are the more reasonable one in the room or that your ideas are the better ones. Those behaviors might win on other platforms. They will not win here.
Tucker Carlson interviews Andrew Tate for Twitter while Elon Musk promotes it, Hamish McKenzie interviews Taylor Lorenz, is this the new strategy to get users more engaged on social apps? Remember, social platforms want you to stay on the app for as long possible.
Substack. Maybe Elon is right and Taibbi needs to find a more reputable platform now that Substack’s reputation is diminished for promoting a doxer disguised as a journalist.
Couldn't have said it better myself. She resorted to doxing the woman who created Libs on TikTok, and then wept like a little bitch when she was subjected to the same treatment. A pathetic, left-wing-propagandizing skank with absolutely no journalistic integrity. Boy, I just can't wait for her book to come out!
LibsofTikTok is a genuine piece of shit who has engaged in targetted harassment campaigns. Imagine attacking Lorenz while standing for a soulless loser like Chaiya.
Well said, and personally I don't have much to say on Taylor aside from expressing a general distaste.
Featuring writers such as Lorenz carries the danger of signaling a degree of political bias, hence the lively comments section this is likely to provoke. A humble suggestion: in the near future, run a piece with one of the orange check writers native to Substack but from the other side of the great political divide. Lorenz is very much an establishment product both in professional background and ideological orientation. An interview with e.g. Niccolo Soldo of Fisted by Foucault, el gato malo, or euggypius of a plague chronicle would signal ideological balance, and likely provide for interesting material.
If you're going to interview polarising figures, then I second John's suggestion. Get a polarising figure with a big audience from the other side of the political aisle.
Apart from the fact the comments section will mean I can make millions out of my popcorn options, it shows that Substack isn't in the tank for either side.
That's precisely the point: as a neutral platform, if they're going to interview highly polarizing figures such as Lorenz, they should give a hearing to the best writers of every side.
Is geeting ratioed on substack a thing? I believe we are about to find out. Love your platform, but giving a person like her additional outlets when they have their own is distasteful to a lot of the people hurt by her writings/actions.
There’s lots of controversial figures that have interesting things to say and I’d be willing to hear out. Taylor Lorenz just doesn’t, and this whole piece comes across as clout chasing for you and reputations rehabilitation for her. I just don’t care what she has to say, and am less likely to consume your content going forward as a result.
Are we going to pretend that people’s problems with Taylor Lorenz has nothing to do with her complete lack of honesty, shoddy journalism and bullying behavior?
LOL, it's not because of culture war. It's about the principal nature of the person. Some people are just grifters. Some people are honorable. Some people are hacks, some people actually care about the truth. Some people are dox'ers, some people respect privacy. Some people believe in free speech, some people don't. I'll leave it to the reader to decide which camp Taylor Lorenz is in. But here's a hint. She's a vapid product of a culture that prioritizes clickbait and virtue signaling over common sense and facts.
Mr. McKenzie : can you explain why so many comments following your recent piece on Robert Reich were censored? While my comments were not removed, many were. Quite frankly, most of them were not that bad. It wasn't a good look for free speech.
Well, I'm glad your comment prompted me to go look that thread up. What a travesty. The stated rationale of the censors that "Substack is founded on the belief that writers and their work deserve respect," period, is both sophomoric and orwellian.
Hi Hamish. It’s fine for you to interview people your users despise. Most of your users have long since had the principle to recognize that.
But they also have the principle to see that there’s no principle at all in doing a teeball interview, let alone with a deeply unprincipled person, let alone one masquerading as a journalist. Journalists--real ones, and I’ll grant there are precious few of them these days--not only respect but revere journalistic ethics, never mind basic universal morals. Lorenz actively disrespects both, in countless ways.
Your pinned postscript comment here is a high-roading but actually quite sordid--even if probably subconscious--attempt to manipulate your users into giving you the kind of teeball treatment you gave Lorenz. Your “interview” demonstrates a lack of understanding about a key aspect of your platform (journalism in both theory and practice), and your postscript demonstrates a gutting disrespect and condescension toward Substack’s users.
It should go without saying that comment sections might be uncensored and “lively” on a platform that claims devotion to free speech. Your need to reassure us you won’t be censoring such “lively” comments isn’t reassuring at all; quite the opposite. It suggests you’re toying with abandoning the principles you’ve led us to believe Substack never would.
I’m genuinely sad to see you damage your and Substack’s reputation this way. I hope you will reflect on this in a truly humble and principled fashion and come out stronger and more dedicated to the principles Substack was ostensibly founded on. Substack is too important to do anything less.
Sorry, pal, but you can't blame her sleazy behavior on the culture wars. No journalist with a shred of integrity doxes someone they don't like. And shame on you for attempting to defend her.
Taylor Lorenz is one of the activists that promotes the culture war. You are sanctioning her behavior by adding her to Substack and daring us to be outraged.
I hope most who read this aren’t upset. Instead, I want them to dismiss the transparent attempt at ramming this hysterical woman down our throat.
Taylor Lorenz's actions are demonstrable and speak for themselves. The Logic of the words she has written and spoken is axiomatic the same as everyone else. She's an ordinary human.
As a Science/Logic/Engineering professional, I personally have very strong views on her actions, and the nonsensical fallacy of much she says. Opinion is inherently fallacious of Logic. Taylor Lorenz is quite effective at demonstrating this axiom of Language.
Moreover, there is no such thing as a "culture war" on Twitter, or anywhere else on the Internet. That's her fishing for validation as a victim and vapid inherently fallacious opinion about a distributed L3 Internetwork of mostly privately owned networks routing a common protocol - TCP/IP. The Internet is not capable of culture, no matter who opines the contrary.
I spent over 30 years of my life designing, building, operating, and developing Internetwork infrastructure for some of the largest Networks & the organizations that own and operate them. Popular Internet sciolism & mythology is very annoying to engineers who build it.
Twitter is not a Technology company. It's an opinion-pimping propaganda platform. It serves exactly zero technological purpose whatsoever, and is built on simple technology. It's for marketing propaganda alone. Anyone using it for propaganda and passive aggressive attacks like Taylor Lorenz has shouldn't expect any less than the same in return. Violence begets violence is an axiom!
The Internet was a far better experience before Internet opinion-pimping became the new standard of virtue-signaling & arrogantly-ignorant, intellectually-lazy, pseudointellectualism became the new excuse for intelligence among the average Idiocratic halfwit sipping on a Brawndo.
Having watched this play out, it's sad to see how Lorenz refuses to play ball. There are hundreds of comments on this piece, but she hasn't meaningful engaged with any of them (and has the gall to complain people won't respond to her).
Hamish, we're not here to be preached to. If someone like Lorenz won't step down into the arena with the paying customers of this website, then what was the fucking point of this entire exercise?
Not a fan at all of this person, but a massive props for allowing an open comment section and the acceptance of alternative voices contrary to the likely vast dislike of said individual.
Looking forward to seeing more unlikely figures pop up.
Agree. And Substack gives her a voice. Why? This is meant for serious people who care about truth & fairness, who have little voice in main stream media. TL fulfills none of these criteria.
Why should we give thoughtful critique and respectful argument to someone who has spent years doing the opposite? Many writers came to Substack to avoid censors like her. Here are a few journalistic questions that I hope she can answer:
“It’s cool to see people use the internet for progress and to bring more freedom to all of us"
Why she is a proponent of censorship and all the anti-freedom, anti-science COVID mandates?
"And so I was always like, fuck the media. Bloggers are journalists, and bloggers are better than journalists"
Why did she work for so many MSM outlets like the holy trinity of NYT/WaPo/Atlantic?
"I’m talking about harassing my family members, getting my family members fired from their jobs, trying to get the children of my family members taken away. I’m talking about doxing to an obscene level."
Is this projection given what she did to Libs of Tik Tok and her family?
"I do think people are retreating more into spaces where they can control their environment. I’ve written about the rise of sort of Discord and group chats, and I just think people are trying to limit their exposure."
Why is she still on Twitter and Substack if she blocks anyone who challenges her?
> given what she did to Libs of Tik Tok and her family
For anyone interested, I covered Lorenz's role in this, in my story: "The Slime Machine Targeting Libs of Tik Tok: The tale of how Taylor Lorenz was used like a puppet by German intelligence"
Psychopaths & social misfits are given a large platform because it benefits the ruling class. Taylor Lorenz’s type of lunacy is sanctioned because it benefits this crop of rulers.
We should use civil language and reason to show Taylor Lorenz how civilized society is supposed to act. Lord knows she needs ample remedial lessons in manners.
Surely there is language enough to adequately describe her shortcomings as a journalist and as a human being without stooping to her juvenile level of discourse.
This was a bold move Hamish. I know that Taylor is seen as a vicious evil for her past actions (and some current views) past and you have taken a gamble bringing her home m your podcast. Personally I do not know Taylor well to have an opinion about her and the way I roll is, if I have a problem with someone, I call them.
All I can say to others is, know the facts, know the person before you attack people online just because someone else has said negative stuff about them. Don’t be a sheep and follow other sheep.
When her own publicly displayed comments show her disdain for freedom of speech whilst treating others disrespectfully because their opinions are different from her own, one does not need to know her personally to discern that she is a useless government trained bot brought to you by our finest indoctrination camps aka socialist universities. She is juvenile and naive to think her opinions are above anyone else's.
I know that many people have strong feelings about anything to do with Taylor Lorenz, which is in part the unfortunate result of culture war behavior common on Twitter. We do not intend to moderate this comments section, even though we expect it to be… lively. Say what you will, but know that invective, ad hominen, and personal attacks are unlikely to achieve your ends. At best, this space supports thoughtful critique and respectful argument—so, can we aim for that? By shouting, you might achieve temporary personal release, but you are unlikely to convince anyone that you are the more reasonable one in the room or that your ideas are the better ones. Those behaviors might win on other platforms. They will not win here.
Tucker Carlson interviews Andrew Tate for Twitter while Elon Musk promotes it, Hamish McKenzie interviews Taylor Lorenz, is this the new strategy to get users more engaged on social apps? Remember, social platforms want you to stay on the app for as long possible.
This just made me unsubscribe from
Substack. Maybe Elon is right and Taibbi needs to find a more reputable platform now that Substack’s reputation is diminished for promoting a doxer disguised as a journalist.
Couldn't have said it better myself. She resorted to doxing the woman who created Libs on TikTok, and then wept like a little bitch when she was subjected to the same treatment. A pathetic, left-wing-propagandizing skank with absolutely no journalistic integrity. Boy, I just can't wait for her book to come out!
LibsofTikTok is a genuine piece of shit who has engaged in targetted harassment campaigns. Imagine attacking Lorenz while standing for a soulless loser like Chaiya.
Why is your beef with Substack and not the author?
The author, Hamish McKenzie, is a co-founder and figurehead of Substack.
Did not know that, thx!
The TC interview of Mr. Tate is pretty fantastic. Just sayin’...
Well said, and personally I don't have much to say on Taylor aside from expressing a general distaste.
Featuring writers such as Lorenz carries the danger of signaling a degree of political bias, hence the lively comments section this is likely to provoke. A humble suggestion: in the near future, run a piece with one of the orange check writers native to Substack but from the other side of the great political divide. Lorenz is very much an establishment product both in professional background and ideological orientation. An interview with e.g. Niccolo Soldo of Fisted by Foucault, el gato malo, or euggypius of a plague chronicle would signal ideological balance, and likely provide for interesting material.
I second Fisted by Foucault
Soldo is really great. If anyone deserves a boost it's him.
Ah, but Mackenzie is not going to amplify that writer.
If you're going to interview polarising figures, then I second John's suggestion. Get a polarising figure with a big audience from the other side of the political aisle.
Apart from the fact the comments section will mean I can make millions out of my popcorn options, it shows that Substack isn't in the tank for either side.
Substack shouldn’t be in the tank for any side. I thought Substack was an escape from both.
That has been the theory.
The reality....???
Fair point.
That's precisely the point: as a neutral platform, if they're going to interview highly polarizing figures such as Lorenz, they should give a hearing to the best writers of every side.
He had a racist grifter who recommended active white nationalists on the last episode of this pod, so I guess you’ve already gotten your wish.
👋
Valid point, John 👍
LOUD SHOUTING! She is a garbage human.
Is geeting ratioed on substack a thing? I believe we are about to find out. Love your platform, but giving a person like her additional outlets when they have their own is distasteful to a lot of the people hurt by her writings/actions.
The public blames “the media” and media blames “the culture wars” and around and around and around we go...
There’s lots of controversial figures that have interesting things to say and I’d be willing to hear out. Taylor Lorenz just doesn’t, and this whole piece comes across as clout chasing for you and reputations rehabilitation for her. I just don’t care what she has to say, and am less likely to consume your content going forward as a result.
Perfectly stated!
+2, here. The Robert Reichhhhhhhhhhh-UH! interview is in the same vein.
Substack is based in SF. And it shows.
You are absolutely correct. The only reason I came here is to find out why it was being recommended so I can make sure it never happens again
Are we going to pretend that people’s problems with Taylor Lorenz has nothing to do with her complete lack of honesty, shoddy journalism and bullying behavior?
I’ll just leave this here
https://youtu.be/1wEACP11J34
Yeah literally nothing in that video is true, but it's a good example of how easily people will believe anything they see on YouTube
Don’t worry, only the fools fall for that nonsense.
You crushed this interview too, great work Taylor 👊🏻
Rot in hell presstitute scum.
For every angry comment you write, I’m buying another copy of her book.
Go for it weirdo
As a Brit who detests MSM and has been tossed off most social media I had no idea who this woman is.... your video helps me to catch up, thank you!
This podcast was certainly more enlightening than I originally expected.
LOL, it's not because of culture war. It's about the principal nature of the person. Some people are just grifters. Some people are honorable. Some people are hacks, some people actually care about the truth. Some people are dox'ers, some people respect privacy. Some people believe in free speech, some people don't. I'll leave it to the reader to decide which camp Taylor Lorenz is in. But here's a hint. She's a vapid product of a culture that prioritizes clickbait and virtue signaling over common sense and facts.
Mr. McKenzie : can you explain why so many comments following your recent piece on Robert Reich were censored? While my comments were not removed, many were. Quite frankly, most of them were not that bad. It wasn't a good look for free speech.
Well, I'm glad your comment prompted me to go look that thread up. What a travesty. The stated rationale of the censors that "Substack is founded on the belief that writers and their work deserve respect," period, is both sophomoric and orwellian.
And I’m not holding my breath for a response from him either
Hi Hamish. It’s fine for you to interview people your users despise. Most of your users have long since had the principle to recognize that.
But they also have the principle to see that there’s no principle at all in doing a teeball interview, let alone with a deeply unprincipled person, let alone one masquerading as a journalist. Journalists--real ones, and I’ll grant there are precious few of them these days--not only respect but revere journalistic ethics, never mind basic universal morals. Lorenz actively disrespects both, in countless ways.
Your pinned postscript comment here is a high-roading but actually quite sordid--even if probably subconscious--attempt to manipulate your users into giving you the kind of teeball treatment you gave Lorenz. Your “interview” demonstrates a lack of understanding about a key aspect of your platform (journalism in both theory and practice), and your postscript demonstrates a gutting disrespect and condescension toward Substack’s users.
It should go without saying that comment sections might be uncensored and “lively” on a platform that claims devotion to free speech. Your need to reassure us you won’t be censoring such “lively” comments isn’t reassuring at all; quite the opposite. It suggests you’re toying with abandoning the principles you’ve led us to believe Substack never would.
I’m genuinely sad to see you damage your and Substack’s reputation this way. I hope you will reflect on this in a truly humble and principled fashion and come out stronger and more dedicated to the principles Substack was ostensibly founded on. Substack is too important to do anything less.
My man, we need no convincing
Sorry, pal, but you can't blame her sleazy behavior on the culture wars. No journalist with a shred of integrity doxes someone they don't like. And shame on you for attempting to defend her.
Amen to that Hamish 🙌🙌🙌
Taylor Lorenz is one of the activists that promotes the culture war. You are sanctioning her behavior by adding her to Substack and daring us to be outraged.
I hope most who read this aren’t upset. Instead, I want them to dismiss the transparent attempt at ramming this hysterical woman down our throat.
She shouldn't be barred from Substack. She also shouldn't be the subject of a slobbering, revisionist feature from the co-founder of Substack.
Taylor Lorenz's actions are demonstrable and speak for themselves. The Logic of the words she has written and spoken is axiomatic the same as everyone else. She's an ordinary human.
As a Science/Logic/Engineering professional, I personally have very strong views on her actions, and the nonsensical fallacy of much she says. Opinion is inherently fallacious of Logic. Taylor Lorenz is quite effective at demonstrating this axiom of Language.
Moreover, there is no such thing as a "culture war" on Twitter, or anywhere else on the Internet. That's her fishing for validation as a victim and vapid inherently fallacious opinion about a distributed L3 Internetwork of mostly privately owned networks routing a common protocol - TCP/IP. The Internet is not capable of culture, no matter who opines the contrary.
I spent over 30 years of my life designing, building, operating, and developing Internetwork infrastructure for some of the largest Networks & the organizations that own and operate them. Popular Internet sciolism & mythology is very annoying to engineers who build it.
Twitter is not a Technology company. It's an opinion-pimping propaganda platform. It serves exactly zero technological purpose whatsoever, and is built on simple technology. It's for marketing propaganda alone. Anyone using it for propaganda and passive aggressive attacks like Taylor Lorenz has shouldn't expect any less than the same in return. Violence begets violence is an axiom!
The Internet was a far better experience before Internet opinion-pimping became the new standard of virtue-signaling & arrogantly-ignorant, intellectually-lazy, pseudointellectualism became the new excuse for intelligence among the average Idiocratic halfwit sipping on a Brawndo.
You are giving a platform to someone who makes a living censoring others. Very revealing. Does Substack have a contractual agreement with Taylor?
Having watched this play out, it's sad to see how Lorenz refuses to play ball. There are hundreds of comments on this piece, but she hasn't meaningful engaged with any of them (and has the gall to complain people won't respond to her).
Hamish, we're not here to be preached to. If someone like Lorenz won't step down into the arena with the paying customers of this website, then what was the fucking point of this entire exercise?
I don’t see this one being well received by substack
You mean suck piece.
When I was a news reporter my editor called these blowjobs.
Perfect description
Taylor is NOT a journalist. She’s a propaganda pushing FAR LEFT WOKE piece of garbage
She’s like 50 acting like a 13 year old bully, funded by major dem overlords.
she is only 44, don't be hyperbolic
Looks obscenely older than she is, acts like a 13 year old bully, and has major funding from those who control media perspectives.*
6 years... Don't be pedantic!
I heard that she is 51... probably lying about her age.
Not a fan at all of this person, but a massive props for allowing an open comment section and the acceptance of alternative voices contrary to the likely vast dislike of said individual.
Looking forward to seeing more unlikely figures pop up.
Yes, the decision to leave the comments open is a bold one, deserving of praise.
Such bravery.
Yeah, so beautiful, so brave.
which is a perfect way to change Substack into the Washington Post.
Well, the paywall is baked into the business model. That's a start down the WaPo road.
Get this crap out of my inbox please.
Second this. The father of lies is working hard to keep Lorenz relevant
Can we have an interview or the girl she doxxed next week?
Agreed. There should be both sides of the story.
If we could have both, that’d be great. Unfortunately... bias is heavy.
That will need to be in Vegas for an MMA match 😂 🔥
I’m so down
I recommend Ariadna Jacob
https://twitter.com/littlemissjacob?lang=en
Lorenz didn't doxx Jacob, simply ruin/defame her business in a different vicious hitpiece
Jacob is currently suing Lorenz for $11.6 million USD
https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/ny-times-taylor-lorenz-lose-bid-to-get-tiktok-talent-agents-suit-tossed/
Hope she cleans her out. Then Lorenz can live among the homeless she helped create with her far left propagandizing
That would be fair. Taylor Lorenz is not merely a fixture of Twitter's "culture wars", but an instigator of them. That deserves attention as well.
She wants to be a "name", she needs to stand up and be held publicly accountable for her efforts to further that ambition.
Agree. And Substack gives her a voice. Why? This is meant for serious people who care about truth & fairness, who have little voice in main stream media. TL fulfills none of these criteria.
Chaya Raichik is awesome and fearless for confronting AOC head on by shaking her hand and then giving her that subpoena. 😆
I would love to hear a debate between Taylor and Chaya (who are polar opposites of each other but are both above average intellectually).
Unfortunately, that’s highly unlikely.
There is nothing of any substance to any of Taylor’s work.
She’s terrible.
Why should we give thoughtful critique and respectful argument to someone who has spent years doing the opposite? Many writers came to Substack to avoid censors like her. Here are a few journalistic questions that I hope she can answer:
“It’s cool to see people use the internet for progress and to bring more freedom to all of us"
Why she is a proponent of censorship and all the anti-freedom, anti-science COVID mandates?
"And so I was always like, fuck the media. Bloggers are journalists, and bloggers are better than journalists"
Why did she work for so many MSM outlets like the holy trinity of NYT/WaPo/Atlantic?
"I’m talking about harassing my family members, getting my family members fired from their jobs, trying to get the children of my family members taken away. I’m talking about doxing to an obscene level."
Is this projection given what she did to Libs of Tik Tok and her family?
"I do think people are retreating more into spaces where they can control their environment. I’ve written about the rise of sort of Discord and group chats, and I just think people are trying to limit their exposure."
Why is she still on Twitter and Substack if she blocks anyone who challenges her?
> given what she did to Libs of Tik Tok and her family
For anyone interested, I covered Lorenz's role in this, in my story: "The Slime Machine Targeting Libs of Tik Tok: The tale of how Taylor Lorenz was used like a puppet by German intelligence"
https://www.karlstack.com/p/the-slime-machine-targeting-libs
Good article.
Psychopaths & social misfits are given a large platform because it benefits the ruling class. Taylor Lorenz’s type of lunacy is sanctioned because it benefits this crop of rulers.
We should use civil language and reason to show Taylor Lorenz how civilized society is supposed to act. Lord knows she needs ample remedial lessons in manners.
Surely there is language enough to adequately describe her shortcomings as a journalist and as a human being without stooping to her juvenile level of discourse.
Write it!
This was a bold move Hamish. I know that Taylor is seen as a vicious evil for her past actions (and some current views) past and you have taken a gamble bringing her home m your podcast. Personally I do not know Taylor well to have an opinion about her and the way I roll is, if I have a problem with someone, I call them.
All I can say to others is, know the facts, know the person before you attack people online just because someone else has said negative stuff about them. Don’t be a sheep and follow other sheep.
When her own publicly displayed comments show her disdain for freedom of speech whilst treating others disrespectfully because their opinions are different from her own, one does not need to know her personally to discern that she is a useless government trained bot brought to you by our finest indoctrination camps aka socialist universities. She is juvenile and naive to think her opinions are above anyone else's.
She doxes people. What else do you need to know?
There’s nothing bold at all about a softball interview--or about actively whitewashing the interview subject’s sins.
This is a perfect example of why trust in media is at an all time low.
The intended outcome of the post had the complete opposite effect - we have eyes, media people, stop acting like we don’t!
I didn’t intend to listen to the whole thing, but it actually ended up putting her in “somewhat” of a different light.
Even though she’s clearly left of center, she was honest about the problem with MSNBC misrepresenting her.
She also appears to be a proponent for freedom of the press and has a problem with the extreme content moderation on Instagram.
All in all, it was not the far left of center type of podcast that I was expecting to hear.
READ THIS STORY I WROTE
The Slime Machine Targeting Libs of Tik Tok: The tale of how Taylor Lorenz was used like a puppet by German intelligence
https://www.karlstack.com/p/the-slime-machine-targeting-libs
This post was very funny. Not true and quite nonsensical but thanks for the laugh.
Why should I care about Taylor Lorenz?!
Good point. That was missing from the article, why she is (in)famous.
She destroys lives. What a they/them!
Nobody cares about this hack
Her valley girl fake affect just makes it all ridiculous. Forget this loser and move on.
Her fake valley girl accent is almost as bad as her fake tears. Horrible person to promote.