Sophia Efthimiatou talks with Nadia Bolz-Weber about sinners and saints, the enduring power of scripture, and how we should really think about resurrection
I'm surprised by some of the comments I read below, not unlike what I read on Facebook, but which I did not expect on Substack.
If you look at my own new substack, you will find my very first entry deals with how I lost my traditional faith, leading to me being a materialist in how I view life and the world.
Having said this, I never show disrespect for organized religion as a concept or those who find believing in a god is cellular, or that human frailties can be cast as sin and human goodness as holy. There is much goodness in Christianity and Judaism and Islam as well as bad. Western religions were created by humans who have the same dichotomy of actions. So it's no surprise to me that people select what they want from the written texts. This pastor is of a different stripe. I found her talk comforting and it she has wisdom in her views. She uses the stories of the Bible, including resurrection as a means to get hope, even if physically nonsense. Didn't Grim do the same thing with his fairy tales--use them as metaphors to lead people to do better things in part. And Shakespeare as well. And poetry writ large.
Do I believe in Jesus or Mohammad or even the Judaic god I grew up with. No. But I still see value in religious exploration through stories of why humans act the way they do.
I'm dealing with a wife with dementia and I search for ways every day to achieve grace and compassion. I'm not using religion, but I am sure my orthodox religious background, whether I believe in the god part or not, forms a valuable template over which I forge how I deal with adversity.
So Bravo to Nadia Boltz-Weber. Thank. you for bringing your form of religion to those who chose to use its tales or even its supernatural structure to help them in times of trouble and guide them in how to live their lives.
And shame on those posting who think it demagoguery or don't think religious discussion should be part of the intellectual community of which Substack is a part. Every society developed some kind of religion to help guide its communities for good--and sometimes evil, yes. Both are part and parcel of the human condition. To deny this is to deny you are human. You don't have to believe in the underpinning, the supernatural, but surely many of the stories and philosophy religion provides can help us individually and communally to be better people.
“To me, faith isn’t intellectual, it’s cellular; it’s just kind of in us. It’s what’s left when everything else has failed us. It’s the thing that’s left.”
Faith is cellular! Thank you! I have never been able to get a grip on what faith is. But it is the foundation that is still there when my facade burns to the ground. It holds me, comforts me and guides me back to the path I am meant to be on.
Thank you for describing it so well. Faith is a deep,integral part of me. And faith changes with me, just as my body changes over time. ❤️
That’s some straight up white people talk. Ask those kids that get gunned down like animals in school if god held them and comforted them. Such a joke.
Whenever Nadia preaches at the cathedral where I go to church, I fangirl uncomfortably at her. 🤩 I’m a huge fan and I always feel like her sermons hit me in ways that call me to action, instead of offering platitudes.
I had a similar reaction as a few of the early commenters - why is this in my inbox? And I’m someone with faith (in something out there without a clear name/face). But I tend to assume a Christian preacher is going to spout a restrictive, passive aggressive sermon. Nadia however seems like a breath of fresh air. I Enjoyed the conversation. And followed her on Insta. Keep your minds open, folks, to finding hope in surprising places.
I’m not sure I can agree. I understand the appeal of faith based beliefs but the damage it has and still causes is breathtaking. No matter how you “repackage” it or reinterpret it, it’s still a medieval approach to trying to understand how things work. The “why” is irrelevant. I encourage readers to search out Christopher Hitchens on YouTube for a more informed and modern approach to ethics and the human condition. It’s the 21st century. We need to put this behind us.
Arrogance and ignorance are a bad combination. The comments here that shut down any consideration of listening to a different voice and experience are disheartening. BS (belief systems) should be open to growth and change. Bubbles are divisive and ineffective at best, and violent at their worst.
It's really disturbing to see people reacting so vehemently against this pastor, who seems so obviously to be an antidote to what a lot of us distrust about organized religion. I am grateful whenever I hear someone grappling with faith in an honest, human way. When you've experienced grief, or a loss of meaning, or had your life otherwise upended, you learn how shitty the tools are the world gives you for dealing with it (substances, TV, the internet.) Anyone who delves straight into the heart of our collective conundrum--evil, darkness, loneliness--and tries to help others survive? That person is golden in my book.
I mean, seriously. These questions aren't supposed to be easy, you guys.
Same. I was horrified at my inbox this morning. And I don't remember subscribing to this. I truly believe in the right for personal spiritual practice, but the horrors of Christianity have just ruined any chance of me listening to something like this.
I totally understand why you feel the way you do about Christianity and I think you’d be surprised that Nadia Bolz-Weber (the pastor interviewed) feels the exact same way. American Evangelicalism is a capitalist and imperialist perversion of Christianity. People like Bolz-Weber are pushing against that narrative and are needed voices criticizing mainstream Christianity from the inside.
I wasn’t horrified. I just think that Substack shouldn’t assume that everyone using their site is automatically Christian and someone having a podcast and monetizing it to me seems wrong. It’s like Web 2.0 televangelism.
The author provided an account of their lived experience without asking anything of the reader nor threatening disagreement with violence or cancelling and you call it demagoguery. Interesting.
The author, or Substack, assumed everyone reading here wanted to hear about her spiritual experiences which are informed by Christianity somehow. There are a lot of people for whom some or all of the visible attributes of Christianity are offensive or tedious. And it's not like they've never had the experience of hearing about it before. But that's not an answer to RayRayRay's observation about the kid who has been gunned down.
Like any publisher, Substack publishes what they think is worth publishing and allows their readers to read it or pass on by. I’m intrigued by the sentiment that this topic is somehow different.
My distinct but perhaps erroneous impression was that the editor was seeking a specific response from the specific person(s) to whom it was addressed. After all, the message, a religious preachment, included a reply box, and religious material can generally be counted on to elicit a wide variety of responses, not all of them favorable.
You're confusing diversity with conformity. Nobody should be worried; NBW is not pushing Christianity on anyone, including herself. At best this is Norman Vincent Peale, but femme, with tats, and cuss words. It'll pass in SF. I'LL pass, from here in flyover country.
That’s a shallow statement. I can’t really put into words what it means to have faith. I’m an not a very observant person; however, I would describe it as being loved by your mother. Do we need a proof? We feel it. Being a religious person is having that feeling around you all the time. It’s even deeper for most people of faith.
My mother made me breakfast, put a bandaid on my knee when I fell, held my head when I was throwing up in the toilet when I had the flu. She made sure I got to school, had clothes. I Can tell my mother loved me. There is nothing to make me " feel" that a non-existent being that has done nothing for me. I was raised catholic, read the bible, then found the bible was written by people no one knows and feel the whole thing is a lie. Perhaps you should dig a little deeper into that.
“In some way, when the shit hits the fan, when we’re desperate, when we’re absolutely terrified, we tend to call out to God in some way.” That’s the point many people don’t want to admit.
"I want the Good News to be some liberating, beautiful—almost destabilizingly so—thing about God; that’s what I want to get to. . . When I hear a sermon, I want somebody to break my heart." Amensayithankyou.
I do not understand why this person has not been defrocked. Collecting purity rings to melt down to make a golden vagina? That alone should have been enough, but I know how the ELCA works. Boot out conservative pastors but turn into bishops those who worship the great goddess in San Francisco. Thus, I consider the source. If you want to listen to good preaching, please listen to Dr. Tim Keller, former founder and Pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, New York. We lost the voice of Dr. Keller in May.
I'm surprised by some of the comments I read below, not unlike what I read on Facebook, but which I did not expect on Substack.
If you look at my own new substack, you will find my very first entry deals with how I lost my traditional faith, leading to me being a materialist in how I view life and the world.
Having said this, I never show disrespect for organized religion as a concept or those who find believing in a god is cellular, or that human frailties can be cast as sin and human goodness as holy. There is much goodness in Christianity and Judaism and Islam as well as bad. Western religions were created by humans who have the same dichotomy of actions. So it's no surprise to me that people select what they want from the written texts. This pastor is of a different stripe. I found her talk comforting and it she has wisdom in her views. She uses the stories of the Bible, including resurrection as a means to get hope, even if physically nonsense. Didn't Grim do the same thing with his fairy tales--use them as metaphors to lead people to do better things in part. And Shakespeare as well. And poetry writ large.
Do I believe in Jesus or Mohammad or even the Judaic god I grew up with. No. But I still see value in religious exploration through stories of why humans act the way they do.
I'm dealing with a wife with dementia and I search for ways every day to achieve grace and compassion. I'm not using religion, but I am sure my orthodox religious background, whether I believe in the god part or not, forms a valuable template over which I forge how I deal with adversity.
So Bravo to Nadia Boltz-Weber. Thank. you for bringing your form of religion to those who chose to use its tales or even its supernatural structure to help them in times of trouble and guide them in how to live their lives.
And shame on those posting who think it demagoguery or don't think religious discussion should be part of the intellectual community of which Substack is a part. Every society developed some kind of religion to help guide its communities for good--and sometimes evil, yes. Both are part and parcel of the human condition. To deny this is to deny you are human. You don't have to believe in the underpinning, the supernatural, but surely many of the stories and philosophy religion provides can help us individually and communally to be better people.
What a beautiful comment. 💕
“To me, faith isn’t intellectual, it’s cellular; it’s just kind of in us. It’s what’s left when everything else has failed us. It’s the thing that’s left.”
Faith is cellular! Thank you! I have never been able to get a grip on what faith is. But it is the foundation that is still there when my facade burns to the ground. It holds me, comforts me and guides me back to the path I am meant to be on.
Thank you for describing it so well. Faith is a deep,integral part of me. And faith changes with me, just as my body changes over time. ❤️
That’s some straight up white people talk. Ask those kids that get gunned down like animals in school if god held them and comforted them. Such a joke.
Because only white people have faith?
Thank you for calling me out on that. It is not my intent to spew straight up white people talk.
Why are you willing to accept rayrayray’s assertion so easily? Is Christianity exclusive to white people?
You’re welcome!!!!
Faith : an idea or belief you have in your mind and you want it to be true, so therefore to you it is.
So I guess it left the agnostics and atheists 🤣. Maybe it went to Pat Robertson who can take them to hell where he belongs.
Whenever Nadia preaches at the cathedral where I go to church, I fangirl uncomfortably at her. 🤩 I’m a huge fan and I always feel like her sermons hit me in ways that call me to action, instead of offering platitudes.
I had a similar reaction as a few of the early commenters - why is this in my inbox? And I’m someone with faith (in something out there without a clear name/face). But I tend to assume a Christian preacher is going to spout a restrictive, passive aggressive sermon. Nadia however seems like a breath of fresh air. I Enjoyed the conversation. And followed her on Insta. Keep your minds open, folks, to finding hope in surprising places.
I fully understand the aversion to most Christian content. I really relate. But am so thrilled you gave this a listen!
I’m not sure I can agree. I understand the appeal of faith based beliefs but the damage it has and still causes is breathtaking. No matter how you “repackage” it or reinterpret it, it’s still a medieval approach to trying to understand how things work. The “why” is irrelevant. I encourage readers to search out Christopher Hitchens on YouTube for a more informed and modern approach to ethics and the human condition. It’s the 21st century. We need to put this behind us.
Nadia, when the saints go marching in, do you mind if I grab one of your hands?
Arrogance and ignorance are a bad combination. The comments here that shut down any consideration of listening to a different voice and experience are disheartening. BS (belief systems) should be open to growth and change. Bubbles are divisive and ineffective at best, and violent at their worst.
We've come a long way since the late 1770's when Samuel Johnson said:
“A woman’s preaching is like a dog’s walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all.”
enjoyed reading this! it's nice to read other people talking about spirituality and the need to grapple with the full contours of our humanity.
I've written a few things about decolonizing and Christianity, including this piece on Mary Magdalena and the Resurrection of ancestral traditions... would love to dialog! https://open.substack.com/pub/blakblan/p/mary-of-magdala-easter-and-the-resurrection?r=20nusy&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
It's really disturbing to see people reacting so vehemently against this pastor, who seems so obviously to be an antidote to what a lot of us distrust about organized religion. I am grateful whenever I hear someone grappling with faith in an honest, human way. When you've experienced grief, or a loss of meaning, or had your life otherwise upended, you learn how shitty the tools are the world gives you for dealing with it (substances, TV, the internet.) Anyone who delves straight into the heart of our collective conundrum--evil, darkness, loneliness--and tries to help others survive? That person is golden in my book.
I mean, seriously. These questions aren't supposed to be easy, you guys.
Loved the podcast, I actually just wrote about Jesus in Japan
https://hiddenjapan.substack.com/p/the-weakest-conspiracy-theory-in
Didn't break my heart, but made me think, and more than once, disagree, and no less worthy for that.
Why am I getting this religious demagoguery? I didn’t ask for it.
Same. I was horrified at my inbox this morning. And I don't remember subscribing to this. I truly believe in the right for personal spiritual practice, but the horrors of Christianity have just ruined any chance of me listening to something like this.
I totally understand why you feel the way you do about Christianity and I think you’d be surprised that Nadia Bolz-Weber (the pastor interviewed) feels the exact same way. American Evangelicalism is a capitalist and imperialist perversion of Christianity. People like Bolz-Weber are pushing against that narrative and are needed voices criticizing mainstream Christianity from the inside.
So she’s doing the podcast for free? No related books or other items for sale?
I can’t speak to someone else’s motives.
I wasn’t horrified. I just think that Substack shouldn’t assume that everyone using their site is automatically Christian and someone having a podcast and monetizing it to me seems wrong. It’s like Web 2.0 televangelism.
Substack is run by idiots.
I think it’s what is called diversity. It’s supposed to be good for us.
Diversity would be promoting a podcast about LGBTQ+, black, Asian, Latino or Indian folks. This is demagoguery. Your English must not be very good.
The author provided an account of their lived experience without asking anything of the reader nor threatening disagreement with violence or cancelling and you call it demagoguery. Interesting.
The author, or Substack, assumed everyone reading here wanted to hear about her spiritual experiences which are informed by Christianity somehow. There are a lot of people for whom some or all of the visible attributes of Christianity are offensive or tedious. And it's not like they've never had the experience of hearing about it before. But that's not an answer to RayRayRay's observation about the kid who has been gunned down.
Like any publisher, Substack publishes what they think is worth publishing and allows their readers to read it or pass on by. I’m intrigued by the sentiment that this topic is somehow different.
My distinct but perhaps erroneous impression was that the editor was seeking a specific response from the specific person(s) to whom it was addressed. After all, the message, a religious preachment, included a reply box, and religious material can generally be counted on to elicit a wide variety of responses, not all of them favorable.
You're confusing diversity with conformity. Nobody should be worried; NBW is not pushing Christianity on anyone, including herself. At best this is Norman Vincent Peale, but femme, with tats, and cuss words. It'll pass in SF. I'LL pass, from here in flyover country.
have you listened to it or read it? You might appreciate it. I hate a lot of so called Christian content but Nadia is a great listen...
I’m an agnostic. I have ZERO interest in this.
I had to look demagoguery ha ha
Faith, the ability to believe in something without proof.
That’s a shallow statement. I can’t really put into words what it means to have faith. I’m an not a very observant person; however, I would describe it as being loved by your mother. Do we need a proof? We feel it. Being a religious person is having that feeling around you all the time. It’s even deeper for most people of faith.
My mother made me breakfast, put a bandaid on my knee when I fell, held my head when I was throwing up in the toilet when I had the flu. She made sure I got to school, had clothes. I Can tell my mother loved me. There is nothing to make me " feel" that a non-existent being that has done nothing for me. I was raised catholic, read the bible, then found the bible was written by people no one knows and feel the whole thing is a lie. Perhaps you should dig a little deeper into that.
“In some way, when the shit hits the fan, when we’re desperate, when we’re absolutely terrified, we tend to call out to God in some way.” That’s the point many people don’t want to admit.
"I want the Good News to be some liberating, beautiful—almost destabilizingly so—thing about God; that’s what I want to get to. . . When I hear a sermon, I want somebody to break my heart." Amensayithankyou.
I do not understand why this person has not been defrocked. Collecting purity rings to melt down to make a golden vagina? That alone should have been enough, but I know how the ELCA works. Boot out conservative pastors but turn into bishops those who worship the great goddess in San Francisco. Thus, I consider the source. If you want to listen to good preaching, please listen to Dr. Tim Keller, former founder and Pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, New York. We lost the voice of Dr. Keller in May.
This is the correct response to this article. Yours won’t be a popular comment, but the truth rarely is these days.