A good interview is one that discusses difficult topics that may cause some to clutch their pearls as they try and cling to their confirmation biases. That's why I've enjoyed Chris Hedges' writing for 20+ years because he doesn't glorify the insanity of war or the conspirators who create them. Plus, as depressing as it may be, he has the ability to tear back the layers of nonsense that cover the reality of our world. His writing is in the same class as Gore Vidal, Hunter S. Thompson and H. L. Mencken, all who equally garnered the hatred of those who preferred to view the world thru nationalist, racist, and corporatist filters. Thanks you for this interview.
¡MARAVILLOSO! Thank you for this extraordinary conversation. I truly applaud Mr. Hedges because being honest is often a threat to those in power. As an independent journalist I vividly understand what he meant by corporate media and the lack of truth, and the real challenges journalists face. Also... you are a great interviewing
“The value of information does not survive the moment in which it was new. It lives only at that moment; it has to surrender itself completely and explain itself to it without losing any time.
A story is different. It does not expend itself. It preserves and concentrates its strength and is capable of releasing it even after a long time.”
Walter Benjamin
People are so overwhelmed with information (information that comes out of a fire hose) that they cannot deconstruct the narratives that they are delivered.
We do not wish to be informed as much as we wish to be educated.
I agree. That is why good journalism is needed and, precisely because of the need to be educated in the face of so much information available, we are seeing a rise in independent journalism
Chris Hedges is a fringe character, and I find it telling and worrying that he gets plugged here. Shame on substack and shame on you for plugging that unhinged antisemite Jonathan Cook.
Hedges compared the USA to East Germany in discussion. All I can say is listen to Yuri Bezmenov to understand where Al Jazeera, Hedges and RT are coming from.
"The final reason why the importance of ideology in fascism must be denied is the fact that it exists in more than one form.
"The final reason why the importance of ideology in fascism must be denied is the fact that it exists in more than one form. In fact, historically it has proved to have three different faces.
One “ out of power " that tends almost to be revolutionary and subversive, anticapitalist and antisocialist.
One "in power but not secure'* — this is the sensational aspect of fascism that we see on screen and read of in pulp novels, when the ruling class, through its instrumental regime, is able to suppress the vanguard party of the people’s and workers’ movement.
The third face of fascism exists when it is “in power and securely so.” During this phase some dissent may even be allowed."
-George L. Jackson—Blood In My Eye; Classes At War (source)
In fact, historically it has proved to have three different faces.
One “ out of power " that tends almost to be revolutionary and subversive, anticapitalist and antisocialist.
One "in power but not secure'* — this is the sensational aspect of fascism that we see on screen and read of in pulp novels, when the ruling class, through its instrumental regime, is able to suppress the vanguard party of the people’s and workers’ movement.
The third face of fascism exists when it is “in power and securely so.”
During this phase some dissent may even be allowed."
-George L. Jackson—Blood In My Eye; Classes At War (source)
Thank you Chris for speaking out about censorship. Too often Leftists refuse to speak out until they themselves have been silenced. They start by saying "We are working w/ the ADL to stop White Supremacists". Then its only hate speech. Then its only anti-LGBT. Then its stopping The New AntiSemitism-Anti-Zionism. Then before you know it G.Greenwald, J.Dore & C.Hedges are being censored. You cant give those guys an inch or they'll take a mile.
“Even among the Left”? What on earth are they talking about. Two very bright men not seeing their own bias. And I’m lost as to why Mr Hedges would say war is white supremacy. What? Only white men cause wars? That needs to be qualified for me to give that due respect. Not that Hedges would care about me respecting him, obviously from his own admission.
The problem is it’s hard to know what his point was with regard to war and white supremacy. Your explanation of it is I suggest too narrow. You only reference the US. The United States is not the world.
Hedges referred to “war” in the general sense. War and warriors are a universal trait, and the desire for war is embedded in every culture everywhere. Even Hedges acknowledges that. Race has therefore nothing to do with it.
But as to US history, Native Indians were murderously “settling” each others lands long before a white man ever stepped foot in the new world.
That aside, the US civil war was in large part fought against white supremacy. So for Hedges’ statement to make sense you have to rewrite history to suit your own worldview. Which is clearly what many are doing.
By the way, Gerald Horne, a Marxist, has more tender feelings towards China and Russia, despite the fact they are culturally disposed to high levels of racism, than he has demonstrated towards the United States. To the point where it’s sometimes to be wondered why he didn’t go and live elsewhere.
Regardless, grievance politics and race baiting is destructive no matter the proponents of it, left or right. It’s ugly stuff.
I suggest reading some Thomas Sowell for Mr Hedges, and perhaps you too. Proust is wonderful, but for practical purposes Sowell could serve as a balance.
Interesting article. I respect his war reporting in life threatening extremely dangerous places but he has become very jaded to the point his Presbyterian flavored Christian faith has failed him. I haven’t seen the hell he has and i have a low opinion of my fellow Americans to or at least the left side of them. They are over educated self righteous Pharisees and Puritan hypocrites worse than the originals. He is stuck in the middle with a left limp. Still i do respect his career.
It’s important to separate the person from the ideas. If you concentrate only on a person’s character and can't see past opinions you disagree with, then you’re missing out. Hedge’s is brilliant. I don't always like what he says, but he forces me to think alternatively and critically, enabling me to shape a more profound view of the top discussed. His insight is invaluable.
If someone always sides with the ones being crushed, and that someone recognizes explicitly that the tides of war can change in an instant, would they have been cheering for the nazis after the Battle of the Bulge?
Also, to the degree that the cheering has a positive effect on war’s outcome, wouldn’t always cheering for the underdog perpetuate any given war? Side A is ahead and doing well, so cheer for B. When B gets ahead of A, reverse course. Repeat as inevitable.
“NOWADAYS, anyone who wishes to combat lies and ignorance and to write the truth must overcome at least five difficulties.
He must have"
1. the courage to write the truth when truth is everywhere opposed;
2. the keenness to recognize it, although it is everywhere concealed;
3. the skill to manipulate it as a weapon;
4. the judgment to select those in whose hands it will be effective; and 5. the cunning to spread the truth among such persons.
These are formidable problems for writers living under Fascism, but they exist also for those writers who have fled or been exiled; they exist even for writers working in countries where civil liberty prevails.”
Bertolt Brecht (1935). Writing the truth: Five difficulties. Translation by Richard Winston, for the magazine ‘Twice a Year’. Collected in William Wasserstrom, ed., Civil Liberties and the Arts: Selections from Twice a Year, 1938-48. Syracuse University Press, 1964.
"The print media has atrophied for many reasons, including commercial reasons. [...] Any institution as it dies becomes more reactive, it becomes more fearful, it attempts to sustain itself, it attempts to not anger or alienate the few people it has left. And so it actually accelerates its own decline. And that’s happening in the press."
There is a ubiquitous lesson and connection with human nature and war I think in that those desperate to hold onto their own assessment of social hierarchical position and/or assumed relevance will become desperate in actions to prevent it's decline. And in most cases it does accelerate the decline. But when enough power is threatened and that power collaborates effectively with other power on a basis of some mutual acceptance of shared goals, that is when we have big wars... including internal cultural wars.
So the lesson is that there is danger in those that turn desperate in preventing their decline because they adopt more risk and malice noting that failure is the looming alternative. It seems to me that the correct remedy to prevent this danger is to recognize the desperation beginning and mediate to help prevent failure, or to otherwise work to accelerate that failure while controlling the actions of those that would burn down the world to prevent it. We are too reactive and not pro-active enough. For example, the media has been in this decline for over 20 years. We have known about it. We have all experienced it. So why then did not the profession work to protect its reputation with some enforced journalistic code of ethics... and maybe a certification and recertification process? Instead all those insiders just rode the path down to where today the trust in media and journalism is in the toilet.
Consumer choice can have some impact, but it will take insider work to fix what is broken in the profession of journalism.
"The preparation for war is useful to the holders of centralized political power.
When things go badly at home, when popular discontent becomes inconveniently articulate, it is always possible, in a world where war-making remains an almost sacred habit, to shift the people's attention away from domestic to foreign and military affairs.
A flood of xenophobic or imperialistic propaganda is released by the government-controlled instruments of persuasion, a "strong policy" is adopted toward some foreign power, an appeal for "national unity" (in other words, unquestioning obedience to the ruling oligarchy) is launched, and at once it becomes unpatriotic for anybody to voice even the most justifiable complaints against mismanagement or oppression.
It is difficult to see how any highly centralized government could afford to dispense with militarism and the threat of foreign war."
Aldous Huxley in his book " Science, Liberty and Peace", 1946
We see this in the war in Ukraine.
And we see the over-extension of militarism, as you noted.
And we are living in the blow-back of military-Keynsianism, which morphed into fascism.
The American anti war movement was destroyed first by its infiltration with deep state actors, like Abby Hoffman, which supported the illusions of these FAKE insurgents via the militarized Media Entertainment complex, buried descent with the removal of the military Draft and its demonic offspring, the birth of private militarized psychopathic mercenaries operating above all laws and governments, education/indoctrination, medicated/zombies,
food/poison.
While the Organ Grinder has its monkeys in the music and movie cults churn out decadent demeaning cultural pollution assaulting children grooming them for slavery.
A good interview is one that discusses difficult topics that may cause some to clutch their pearls as they try and cling to their confirmation biases. That's why I've enjoyed Chris Hedges' writing for 20+ years because he doesn't glorify the insanity of war or the conspirators who create them. Plus, as depressing as it may be, he has the ability to tear back the layers of nonsense that cover the reality of our world. His writing is in the same class as Gore Vidal, Hunter S. Thompson and H. L. Mencken, all who equally garnered the hatred of those who preferred to view the world thru nationalist, racist, and corporatist filters. Thanks you for this interview.
Ditto.
I just finished reading Mencken’s Prejudices. I read all of it in two weeks because every essay punched me in the gut.
¡MARAVILLOSO! Thank you for this extraordinary conversation. I truly applaud Mr. Hedges because being honest is often a threat to those in power. As an independent journalist I vividly understand what he meant by corporate media and the lack of truth, and the real challenges journalists face. Also... you are a great interviewing
“The value of information does not survive the moment in which it was new. It lives only at that moment; it has to surrender itself completely and explain itself to it without losing any time.
A story is different. It does not expend itself. It preserves and concentrates its strength and is capable of releasing it even after a long time.”
Walter Benjamin
People are so overwhelmed with information (information that comes out of a fire hose) that they cannot deconstruct the narratives that they are delivered.
We do not wish to be informed as much as we wish to be educated.
I agree. That is why good journalism is needed and, precisely because of the need to be educated in the face of so much information available, we are seeing a rise in independent journalism
I love these conversations!
The Chris bashing is hilarious. Obviously from a well read citizenry from the safety of their bunkers. USA! USA! USA!
Chris Hedges is a fringe character, and I find it telling and worrying that he gets plugged here. Shame on substack and shame on you for plugging that unhinged antisemite Jonathan Cook.
Hedges compared the USA to East Germany in discussion. All I can say is listen to Yuri Bezmenov to understand where Al Jazeera, Hedges and RT are coming from.
Thanks for your deep insight, concern troll.
Most Americans are fringe characters. Chris is not with RT anymore.
Chris is a public figure. Hardly fringe.
He may be forced into exile, for fascism is both technocratic and ethno-nationalist.
You must be a conspiracy theorists who believes in Russiagate.
"The final reason why the importance of ideology in fascism must be denied is the fact that it exists in more than one form.
"The final reason why the importance of ideology in fascism must be denied is the fact that it exists in more than one form. In fact, historically it has proved to have three different faces.
One “ out of power " that tends almost to be revolutionary and subversive, anticapitalist and antisocialist.
One "in power but not secure'* — this is the sensational aspect of fascism that we see on screen and read of in pulp novels, when the ruling class, through its instrumental regime, is able to suppress the vanguard party of the people’s and workers’ movement.
The third face of fascism exists when it is “in power and securely so.” During this phase some dissent may even be allowed."
-George L. Jackson—Blood In My Eye; Classes At War (source)
In fact, historically it has proved to have three different faces.
One “ out of power " that tends almost to be revolutionary and subversive, anticapitalist and antisocialist.
One "in power but not secure'* — this is the sensational aspect of fascism that we see on screen and read of in pulp novels, when the ruling class, through its instrumental regime, is able to suppress the vanguard party of the people’s and workers’ movement.
The third face of fascism exists when it is “in power and securely so.”
During this phase some dissent may even be allowed."
-George L. Jackson—Blood In My Eye; Classes At War (source)
Soon, no dissent will be allowed.
Tis
a sign
of Sickness
to be well-adjusted
on a Mal-adjusted Planet
.
in spite of our War Mongers
War is NOT the answer:
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmI_FT4YHU&ab_channel=BobDylanVEVO
Thank you Chris for speaking out about censorship. Too often Leftists refuse to speak out until they themselves have been silenced. They start by saying "We are working w/ the ADL to stop White Supremacists". Then its only hate speech. Then its only anti-LGBT. Then its stopping The New AntiSemitism-Anti-Zionism. Then before you know it G.Greenwald, J.Dore & C.Hedges are being censored. You cant give those guys an inch or they'll take a mile.
“Even among the Left”? What on earth are they talking about. Two very bright men not seeing their own bias. And I’m lost as to why Mr Hedges would say war is white supremacy. What? Only white men cause wars? That needs to be qualified for me to give that due respect. Not that Hedges would care about me respecting him, obviously from his own admission.
You missed his point.
The US is a white, settler colony.
See Hedges' interviews with Gerald Horne.
Imperialism is the white man's burden.
The “point” was not missed.
The problem is it’s hard to know what his point was with regard to war and white supremacy. Your explanation of it is I suggest too narrow. You only reference the US. The United States is not the world.
Hedges referred to “war” in the general sense. War and warriors are a universal trait, and the desire for war is embedded in every culture everywhere. Even Hedges acknowledges that. Race has therefore nothing to do with it.
But as to US history, Native Indians were murderously “settling” each others lands long before a white man ever stepped foot in the new world.
That aside, the US civil war was in large part fought against white supremacy. So for Hedges’ statement to make sense you have to rewrite history to suit your own worldview. Which is clearly what many are doing.
By the way, Gerald Horne, a Marxist, has more tender feelings towards China and Russia, despite the fact they are culturally disposed to high levels of racism, than he has demonstrated towards the United States. To the point where it’s sometimes to be wondered why he didn’t go and live elsewhere.
Regardless, grievance politics and race baiting is destructive no matter the proponents of it, left or right. It’s ugly stuff.
I suggest reading some Thomas Sowell for Mr Hedges, and perhaps you too. Proust is wonderful, but for practical purposes Sowell could serve as a balance.
Ha! Wait … that’s not funny. Yes, yes, it is. But I am not laughing.
Interesting article. I respect his war reporting in life threatening extremely dangerous places but he has become very jaded to the point his Presbyterian flavored Christian faith has failed him. I haven’t seen the hell he has and i have a low opinion of my fellow Americans to or at least the left side of them. They are over educated self righteous Pharisees and Puritan hypocrites worse than the originals. He is stuck in the middle with a left limp. Still i do respect his career.
https://newrepublic.com/article/118114/chris-hedges-pulitzer-winner-lefty-hero-plagiarist
Let the record show: While scrolling, I accidentally “liked” Robin’s comment.
You have the option to unlike your accidental like. Tap again on the like and poof its undone.
It’s important to separate the person from the ideas. If you concentrate only on a person’s character and can't see past opinions you disagree with, then you’re missing out. Hedge’s is brilliant. I don't always like what he says, but he forces me to think alternatively and critically, enabling me to shape a more profound view of the top discussed. His insight is invaluable.
When there is no political movement then we fall back on celebrity journalists, individuals and interviews and podcasts.
Hedges does a great service.
That he is alone is the fault of Americans who fail to learn, organize and fight.
Keep going. I'm listening.
*Hedges (not Hedge’s)—damn autocorrect.
Oh the horror of the real world. First class virtue signaling.
If someone always sides with the ones being crushed, and that someone recognizes explicitly that the tides of war can change in an instant, would they have been cheering for the nazis after the Battle of the Bulge?
Also, to the degree that the cheering has a positive effect on war’s outcome, wouldn’t always cheering for the underdog perpetuate any given war? Side A is ahead and doing well, so cheer for B. When B gets ahead of A, reverse course. Repeat as inevitable.
It's like this: he is a moral simpleton.
“NOWADAYS, anyone who wishes to combat lies and ignorance and to write the truth must overcome at least five difficulties.
He must have"
1. the courage to write the truth when truth is everywhere opposed;
2. the keenness to recognize it, although it is everywhere concealed;
3. the skill to manipulate it as a weapon;
4. the judgment to select those in whose hands it will be effective; and 5. the cunning to spread the truth among such persons.
These are formidable problems for writers living under Fascism, but they exist also for those writers who have fled or been exiled; they exist even for writers working in countries where civil liberty prevails.”
Bertolt Brecht (1935). Writing the truth: Five difficulties. Translation by Richard Winston, for the magazine ‘Twice a Year’. Collected in William Wasserstrom, ed., Civil Liberties and the Arts: Selections from Twice a Year, 1938-48. Syracuse University Press, 1964.
"The print media has atrophied for many reasons, including commercial reasons. [...] Any institution as it dies becomes more reactive, it becomes more fearful, it attempts to sustain itself, it attempts to not anger or alienate the few people it has left. And so it actually accelerates its own decline. And that’s happening in the press."
There is a ubiquitous lesson and connection with human nature and war I think in that those desperate to hold onto their own assessment of social hierarchical position and/or assumed relevance will become desperate in actions to prevent it's decline. And in most cases it does accelerate the decline. But when enough power is threatened and that power collaborates effectively with other power on a basis of some mutual acceptance of shared goals, that is when we have big wars... including internal cultural wars.
So the lesson is that there is danger in those that turn desperate in preventing their decline because they adopt more risk and malice noting that failure is the looming alternative. It seems to me that the correct remedy to prevent this danger is to recognize the desperation beginning and mediate to help prevent failure, or to otherwise work to accelerate that failure while controlling the actions of those that would burn down the world to prevent it. We are too reactive and not pro-active enough. For example, the media has been in this decline for over 20 years. We have known about it. We have all experienced it. So why then did not the profession work to protect its reputation with some enforced journalistic code of ethics... and maybe a certification and recertification process? Instead all those insiders just rode the path down to where today the trust in media and journalism is in the toilet.
Consumer choice can have some impact, but it will take insider work to fix what is broken in the profession of journalism.
"The preparation for war is useful to the holders of centralized political power.
When things go badly at home, when popular discontent becomes inconveniently articulate, it is always possible, in a world where war-making remains an almost sacred habit, to shift the people's attention away from domestic to foreign and military affairs.
A flood of xenophobic or imperialistic propaganda is released by the government-controlled instruments of persuasion, a "strong policy" is adopted toward some foreign power, an appeal for "national unity" (in other words, unquestioning obedience to the ruling oligarchy) is launched, and at once it becomes unpatriotic for anybody to voice even the most justifiable complaints against mismanagement or oppression.
It is difficult to see how any highly centralized government could afford to dispense with militarism and the threat of foreign war."
Aldous Huxley in his book " Science, Liberty and Peace", 1946
We see this in the war in Ukraine.
And we see the over-extension of militarism, as you noted.
And we are living in the blow-back of military-Keynsianism, which morphed into fascism.
The American anti war movement was destroyed first by its infiltration with deep state actors, like Abby Hoffman, which supported the illusions of these FAKE insurgents via the militarized Media Entertainment complex, buried descent with the removal of the military Draft and its demonic offspring, the birth of private militarized psychopathic mercenaries operating above all laws and governments, education/indoctrination, medicated/zombies,
food/poison.
While the Organ Grinder has its monkeys in the music and movie cults churn out decadent demeaning cultural pollution assaulting children grooming them for slavery.
Umm. . . .
Hmm
I couldn’t listen to all of it. Hedges is so full of himself. My vocabulary fails me; why is Substack wasting my time . . .
That’s awful about your time being wasted. I’m concerned Substack didn’t think of you before interviewing Hedges. Didn’t you get the permission slip?
They are not. You are wasting your time on substack
Okay—that’s definitely funny.
tl;dr.
I am unfamiliar with that language.
It was the unseen hand of God that so protected Chris Hedges!